Maggie has had trouble falling asleep and staying asleep off and on for the past 13 years. She’s tried all the things: CDB, melatonin, no screens, dark room, increasing protein, and even went through the torture of sleep restriction which made her get even less sleep.


In this sleep breakthrough session, I go beyond the basic sleep hygiene and tips since she’s already done all of those and get into how the things she’s doing to be healthy such as exercise and diet could actually be negatively affecting her sleep.


Schedule a consultation to get started with the Complete Sleep Solution program so you can consistently sleep 7+ hours uninterrupted, naturally and permanently.


Sign up for a free Sleep Breakthrough call that will be aired on this podcast! You’ll fill out an assessment and then we’ll meet on Zoom and I’ll tell you 3 things to do right now that will have the biggest impact on your health and sleep. Schedule your call here.


Resources mentioned in this episode:


00:00 Introduction to Maggie's Sleep Struggles

00:44 Meet Your Host: Martha Lewis

01:03 Maggie's Sleep History

03:32 Exploring Past Sleep Solutions

08:28 The Role of Hormones in Sleep

11:11 Impact of Exercise on Sleep

14:30 Diet and Sleep Connection

22:07 Conclusion and Next Steps


Episode Transcript


Martha Lewis:

Maggie has had trouble falling asleep and staying asleep off and on for the past 13 years. She's tried all the things as you can imagine, CB, D, melatonin, no screens, dark room, increasing protein. She even went through the torture of sleep restriction, which made her get even less sleep in her sleep Breakthrough session. In this episode, we go beyond the basic sleep hygiene and tips since she's already done all of those and we get into how things she's doing to be healthy, such as exercise and diet could actually be negatively affecting her sleep. This is the Sleep Detective podcast where you will learn why you can't sleep and how to fix it without drugs. I'm Martha Lewis. I've been a functional health coach for the past five years, and I've helped over 200 clients find the fix the root causes of their health issues so they can consistently sleep seven to nine hours naturally, even if they've done things like CBTI and it didn't help. Hello everyone. Today I have Maggie here for a sleep breakthrough call. Thanks for being here, Maggie.


Maggie:

Thanks for having me.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, definitely. And I know from the assessment you filled out a little bit of what's going on, especially with your sleep, but I mean, it sounds like you've been dealing with this for a while now, maybe 13 years since pregnancy in birth of your son. Is that right?


Maggie:

Yes. Yeah. It started in pregnancy to my best of my knowledge or recollection towards the end of my pregnancy, just didn't sleep very well because I was uncomfortable. And then of course, after giving birth, it took my child several years to get into his own sleep routine, and then I just feel like I haven't really gotten it back since then.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, I don't know if you know my story, but it's similar. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah. My sleep issues started in late pregnancy, but I mean, I developed full on what I would call insomnia. I mean, I was awake for hours, and so it was more than just being uncomfortable, I think, but I figured it would go away when my son was born, but no, it still did, and he had his sleep struggles, and then I hired a pediatric sleep consultant, and then I became a pediatric sleep consultant.


Maggie:

Wow.


Martha Lewis:

So life changing and then I'm like, I'm still not sleeping. I'm still awake for two or three hours in the middle of the night, and I've always been one of those people who needs a lot of sleep, so I was just like, what have I done?


Maggie:

Yeah. Yeah. I remember driving just on an errand and being so spaced out that I forgot where I was going and I'm like, this is not,


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, totally. Yeah,


Maggie:

Something about it.


Martha Lewis:

So now you're getting maybe four to seven hours of sleep?


Maggie:

My sleep is kind of variable. I definitely kind of have peaks and valleys and on a bad, we're looking at three, four hours and B seven. Yeah.


Martha Lewis:

Okay. And then it's trouble falling and staying asleep.


Maggie:

Yep.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. Okay.


Maggie:

And I think some of that has to do with, I mean, I'm fairly regular with my bedtime, but I do know sometimes if I am tired and I get in bed and it's earlier that I normally go to bed, that sometimes triggers hard falling asleep, even though I feel like I'm tired when I get in bed.


Martha Lewis:

Right. Okay. Yeah. So tell me what you've tried so far.


Maggie:

Okay. Wow. Out. I've tried CBDs, I've tried melatonin, and those have helped some for a period of time. I've tried magnesium, I've tried CBTI and the sleep restriction sleep window restriction. That was like torture.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, it sounds like torture.


Maggie:

Yeah, I just was getting less and less sleep when I did that method.


Martha Lewis:

Gotcha.


Maggie:

No, I've done all of the no screens dark. Cool. I'm currently really trying to up my protein and pay more attention to my diet exercise, getting as much sun as I can, which is hard during this time of year, but


Martha Lewis:

In Colorado, in the mountains.


Maggie:

Yep.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. Okay. So I mean with CDTI too, did you try getting out of bed when you were sleeping? That


Maggie:

And I think that definitely I helped some. I guess I have kind of stopped doing that, just almost out of hopelessness. It just doesn't feel like it was doing enough for me and maybe it's something I do need to try again. The thought of getting out of bed in the middle of the night when it's cold storm and it's just not enticing.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. Did you think it helped you get more sleep at all, or it just didn't really help?


Maggie:

I mean, I think it helped maybe switch my mind from the cycling thoughts, just thinking about holding laundry or a book that I'm reading, and so what I do now to I guess help me fall back asleep or shift my mindset is listen to a podcast or a book on tape, which definitely helps 50% of the time. Then the other 50% of the time I listen to three hours of audio and don't get a lot of sleep.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, that's good to know. And getting out of bed is something I tend to recommend. There's nothing that's going to work for everyone or that everyone is going to prefer or want to do. I found it helped me get more sleep, but I know it's hard. It's hard to motivate, but every time I did it was like falling asleep I think a lot faster than I would have. Yeah. But I mean, I think a lot of it, well, we want your bed to have that strong association with sleep, but also we don't want lean, so if you're doing something else, relaxing to distract yourself, then that's good. And those magic things as aren't enough to help. It's not solving your sleep issues at this point. So I recommend them. They can help get a little more sleep while people are solving their sleep issues, but if that was secure for insomnia, Google says it is. It's like, you wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be like, yeah, this would not be an issue, but it is. So yeah, I did notice that I think you checked off that there was a clock in view, so I don't know if that's something that you're looking at throughout the night when you're awake.


Maggie:

I mean, I certainly have had that phase in my sleep struggles and now I glance at it and just notice it, but I don't really fixate on it, I would say. So I don't know that that's a huge factor anymore.


Martha Lewis:

Right.


Maggie:

Yeah.


Martha Lewis:

I just feel like no matter what time it is, it's never a good time either. I've only been asleep for two hours, or I only have two hours before I have to wake up or whatever it is, but if you don't feel like it's affecting your mindset, then yeah, it's probably not the end of the world. I will say it's weird when I first started doing it just to be awake and I have no idea what time it is.


Maggie:

Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe I'll try that.


Martha Lewis:

I mean, I think it's worth a try of just, and then you're not having to stop judgment from it in your head. There's just no judgment. You don't know what time it is or how long you've been awake or any of that.


Maggie:

Right.


Martha Lewis:

I mean, it's tricky if you're using your phone to put on podcasts, it's very easy to see the time, obviously, but if you can try not to look, that could be helpful. You also checked off that you're dealing with some night sweats, hot flashes, so are you waking up warm?


Maggie:

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't happen every night, but there have been times when I've woken up, not so much sweaty. I mean, I've had a few incidents like that, but just like, whoa. All of a sudden I am really warm and hot and I mean, I'm in Colorado and it's freezing when you get in bed, and so we have lots of covers on, and then at some point my body heats up and maybe I don't need as many covers. So I dunno.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. So I mean, what comes to mind is how normal that is, or is that a sign of hormone imbalance or your body's releasing cortisol at that time, which is going to increase our body temperature and wake us up and make our mind race and all of that. And that is what I see is going on with most people who are waking up in the middle of the night. It's like their body's releasing cortisol and then you're awake and it takes your body time to process that and get it out of your system. So that's why it's taking you a while to go back to sleep.


Maggie:

Yeah, I feel that.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. So that can be, again, that just getting hot in the night can be from that cortisol specifically,


Maggie:

So it's more like a symptom of cortisol release.


Martha Lewis:

Right, yeah.


Maggie:

Causing it. Yeah.


Martha Lewis:

And then also sex hormone imbalance or depletion can also lead to that as well, and so it could be one or both of those things. Yeah. Have you gotten your hormones tested at all?


Maggie:

I have not.


Martha Lewis:

Okay.


Maggie:

No, I'm in my early forties and my period is still fairly regular, but that's not something that I know about.


Martha Lewis:

Right. Gotcha. I mean, that could be a good first step. It's what I tend to recommend, especially knowing you have a history of the IUD as well, so that can definitely mess with hormones even more.


Maggie:

Okay.


Martha Lewis:

So that could be a good start. I mean, I know you're on the younger side for dealing with perimenopause, but it could be the beginning of that or, or not there yet, but like I said, just hormones have gotten out of balance over the years. It's easy for that to happen, especially when our body's stressed. Okay. So you're also exercising plenty it looks like. Makes sense. You're in a mountain town, I know you're saying 30 minutes to three hours running and skiing. What kind of skiing are you doing?


Maggie:

Mostly just alpine downhill ski. 


Martha Lewis:

Okay.


Maggie:

Yeah, and I'm training for a half marathon right now, going on some pretty long runs on a few days a week and then shorter ones.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so you might not want to hear, I mean, I was the same way, and a lot of times, especially local clients too, it's like they're trying to exercise to make themselves to be able to sleep, but sometimes that strenuous exercise, if we already aren't sleeping, is more than our body can handle. And so it's just kind of like, okay, the body's already stressed, it's already releasing cortisol because I'm not sleeping and for whatever reasons are causing the not sleeping, whether it has to do with gut health or liver detox or whatever it is. And so then that strenuous exercise is adding to that stress. What should be healthy is becoming too much. 


Maggie:

Makes sense. I definitely have that kind overdone it feel that almost makes your heart pound a little bit. So I think that that's definitely factoring towards that. On your podcast last week I was on my three hour run, I probably, the good news is I only have a few more weeks until my event.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. And obviously this has been going on for long. Your sleep issues been going on for longer than this, but just sometimes we think that that's going to help and it could actually be making things worse.


Maggie:

Totally.


Martha Lewis:

And I know it's hard to take a step back. Mean especially that was my identity, that's what I did with my friends. It was really hard at first, but I got to the point where I couldn't even tolerate anymore. I remember going for a two hour ski tour with friends and I was exhausted for three days after, what is this? So yeah, so my body was like, you have to slow down, because since then I've learned how to do that and


Maggie:

Try to


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's so much of push through and no pain, no gain and all of that, but I think it starts serving us to listen to our bodies and be like, it's not telling me to have a cup of coffee or to just go for a three hour run. It's telling me to rest instead.


Maggie:

Yeah. Yeah. It's so hard to do, but


Martha Lewis:

I know, and it's not forever now. I mean, this was five years ago that this happened, or six years ago, and now I did a 19 mile trail running race last year, last summer, and so it's like I've been able to do those things again.


Maggie:

You just have to


Martha Lewis:

Nowhere near as competitive or


Maggie:

Yeah.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. I had to dress it.


Maggie:

I don't care about the competitive part, I just be out there.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And then I think the other thing I wanted to talk about was diet. So you mentioned sometimes you can tell that gluten has an effect on you in larger amounts or what


Maggie:

I like, it'll be like what I maybe have baked some bread or crackers or something, which I don't do an awful lot, and then just have a huge amount. So good, and it's there. I'll notice some headaches or just some brain fogginess. I don't eat a whole lot of gluten throughout the day, but also I don't notice it too much in my regular day-to-day life, but I also don't limit it either.


Martha Lewis:

Right. Yeah. I mean, the tricky thing is that if it's something we are eating, even if it's not massive amounts, but we're eating regularly, it's hard to tell how it affects us. So I remember for years I thought gluten was an issue for me, and then I did quit for 30 days, and this was when I was dealing with my sleep struggles too. And then I ate it again. I remember I had a cupcake for my son's birthday that I made, and I was awake at three that night. I was bloated, I noticed I was tired. And I think it's like we get used to it if we're having time, and that's just how we feel all the time. So then when you stop for a while and then include it back in, then a lot of times you notice like, oh, I'm reacting to this. So


Maggie:

A pause.


Martha Lewis:

I mean, I think it's worth trying if you're open to it. I mean, the test I do for gut health has a marker for gluten sensitivity. So a lot of times I wait to get that back before I just recommend that all my clients go gluten free. It's like not everyone needs to, but probably 80% of them or 85% of them are reacting, and it's not always forever. And that's debatable, controversial as well, but there's a lot that goes into it. But when the gut isn't healthy, then we start reacting to foods that we wouldn't. And even Whole Foods, sometimes people are reacting like salmon and lettuce and foods that we shouldn't be reacting to when the gut's healthy. I mean, gluten's a whole nother story because of how it's grown now, because if it's not organic, it has glyphosate on it, sprayed on it, and then how it's prepared. We used to, or culturally, historically, every culture used to sprout ferment or soak grains. And now our modern food company food system is not like that. We're making quick bread. So anyway, so gluten can be an issue. And it sounds like you're noticing it in higher amounts, so that means it could be irritating you every day and you can't really tell


Maggie:

Low level.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.


Maggie:

Okay.


Martha Lewis:

And then I also noticed that you're eating a vegan diet. Have you been doing that for a while?


Maggie:

Yeah, probably at least 10 years. Then prior to that, I was vegetarian for really long, and I did hear your recommendation on last week's podcast. That can be tricky, and it is definitely an ethical choice for me inside the thought of consuming meat or animal products is a little unpalatable, but it does make me realize, especially when I'm training for an event like this, just how important it's to get that protein.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah.


Maggie:

So yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think it's tricky. It's tricky to get enough protein and without getting too many carbs, especially on a more vegan, vegetarian diet, because sources of protein also have carbs, all the lis and things, there's not much except for soy that only has protein. So that's part of it. And yeah, I mean, it's tricky when we're doing it for other reasons besides health, I guess, for ethical reasons. But I think it can be hard to get the cholesterol and the fats and everything that we need to build our hormones and things like that. And I will say, I've worked with a few vegans over the years, and I've just found that the people who didn't change their diet, they didn't get better. I mean, I can think of them, the few people in my head, and I get it. And so I know it's a sensitive subject, and it's very controversial topic as well. And I don't know if you heard my background. I was a vegetarian for seven years for ethical reasons as well, and then working on an organic biodynamic farm really to kind of changed my perspective about that. Yeah. So just


Maggie:

Well, that's good to know that that could be such a huge factor.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah.


Maggie:

Yeah.


Martha Lewis:

So yes, thanks for at least being open to that.


Maggie:

Yeah,


Martha Lewis:

I know. Again, it's not another thing that you necessarily want to hear, but yeah, I mean, another thing that struck me is I got a master's in holistic nutrition 15 years ago at this point, and it was a program that very much supported vegetarianism veganism, and that's what I was, but I remember graduating and being like, I don't know that everyone should be, I was dating a tall, skinny guy at the time. I'm like, I don't know that he would get enough calories, protein, whatever, if he was, and then I started learning about nutrition from, again, a cultural perspective. And knowing that 200 years ago, which wasn't that long, even a hundred years ago, someone went and studied diets around the world and found that no one was eating a vegetarian diet. I mean, there were the Indians in India for spiritual reasons, but that's it. No other culture was doing that. And they were all animal foods is like when couples were going to conceive, they got the organ meats and that. So it was really interesting to learn that. And to me, it just makes sense. What were we doing 200 years ago? It doesn't have to be paleo of tens of thousands of years ago,

But our food system has changed so much since the early 19 hundreds. So even 200 years ago is representative of what we were doing before all these processed foods,


Maggie:

Right? Yeah.


Martha Lewis:

So yeah,


Maggie:

Definitely something to think about.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, totally. But for now, definitely working on getting enough protein, things like that, even looking at blood sugar could be helpful just to make sure that, yeah, that the foods you are eating or the meals you're eating aren't spiking your blood sugar too high. And I can send you a ation about that too.


Maggie:

Sure. That'd be great.


Martha Lewis:

Yeah. So that is what I would recommend is looking into hormones, looking into the diet part, and maybe once you're done with this half marathon, taking it easy with the exercise. Yes.


Maggie:

Yeah. See how


Martha Lewis:

That helps. Yeah, totally. Yeah,


Maggie:

Really appreciate your insight and really enjoy listening to your shows.


Martha Lewis:

Great.


Maggie:

Chipping away at it and maybe one day I'll sign up. Fine. Not getting really,


Martha Lewis:

Yeah, yeah, definitely keep me posted on how things go. And if these things aren't enough, then it means there's something more going on and we want to


Maggie:

Be


Martha Lewis:

Looking into the other factors that could be affecting your sleep and causing you to have trouble falling asleep and waking up in the middle of the night.


Maggie:

Also,


Martha Lewis:

Maggie, so much. Yes, you're welcome. Great to meet you. And I'll likewise send you those resources. And for everyone listening, I'll link to those same resources in the show notes, so you'll have them there. You are also invited to sign up for a free sleep breakthrough session just like Maggie, that will be aired on this podcast. When you sign up, you'll fill out an assessment and then we'll meet on Zoom and I'll tell you three things you can do right now that will have the biggest impact on your health and sleep. You can schedule the session at the link in the show notes.

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