Sunil started waking up in the middle of the night about 6 months ago and it doesn’t make sense because he eats healthy, he exercises, he doesn’t have a lot of stress, and he’s doing so many things to take care of himself. 


In this Sleep Breakthrough call, Sunil and I talk about his health and sleep and what could be causing him to wake up for 2 hours in the night. I gave him one tip to help him fall back asleep faster. And I recommended a surprise change to his exercise plan. And I told him the 3 most likely reasons for his wake ups and he’s going to look into one of them to start.


Resources:

  • Blood sugar https://thesleepdetective.com/post/what-you-need-to-know-about-blood-sugar-and-sleep-1
  • Support your liver https://thesleepdetective.com/post/how-to-minimize-toxins-to-sleep-better

https://thesleepdetective.com/post/is-your-liver-causing-your-insomnia

  • Continuous glucose monitor: https://www.hellolingo.com/


Sign up for a free Sleep Breakthrough call that will be aired on this podcast! You’ll fill out an assessment and then we’ll meet on Zoom and I’ll tell you 3 things to do right now that will have the biggest impact on your health and sleep. Schedule your call here.


Schedule a consultation to get started with the Complete Sleep Solution program so you can consistently sleep 7+ hours uninterrupted, naturally and permanently.


Episode Transcript


Sunil started waking up in the middle of the night about six months ago, and it doesn't make sense because he eats healthy, he exercises, he doesn't have a lot of stress in his life. He's really doing so many things to take care of himself. In this sleep breakthrough call, Sunil and I talk about his health and sleep, and what could be causing him to wake up for two hours in the night.


I gave him one tip to help him fall back asleep faster. I recommended a surprise change to his exercise plan. And I told him the three most likely reasons for his wake ups and he's going to look into one of them to start. This is the sleep detective podcast to help you finally understand why you don't sleep well and how to fix it so you can consistently sleep seven plus hours uninterrupted.


Naturally, my name is Martha Lewis, and I'm a functional health and sleep coach. I've helped myself and over 200 clients overcome their sleep problems and restore their health, even if they've already tried what seems like everything.


Sunil, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you here. Oh, thank you. It's my pleasure. Yes. Awesome. So, uh, You know, you filled out the assessment before this call and it sounds like you've been dealing with sleep issues for the past six months.


Is that right? Yes. Uh, I've been, one of the joke around the house is that as soon as I hit the pillow, I go to sleep. But, uh, so that was the, so nobody really believes that I have some trouble kind of staying asleep these days. I mean, again, uh, it comes and goes, but, uh, the days. Um, and again, um, last couple of months have been kind of tough, um, bright, even though I, I don't take a nap during the day, but I'm, you know, go to bed in a consistent time.


But then next thing I know is that I am, you know, awake and bright and, you know, then wake to two, three hours before get to get, get back to sleep. So, yeah. Um, it typically happens anywhere between 11 and two. Okay. That's when I'm mostly awake. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is one of the most common things I'd see.

And that was my issue too, where I had gone from being this great sleeper to all of a sudden I'm awake at 3am for two hours, um, kind of happened out of the blue. So do you know what triggered this? Did anything change in your life or was it just. You have no idea. That's the thing. We can't, when I looked at all the things that I've been doing, everything has been consistent.


We have been, I'm a kind of a creature of a habit. So, uh, everything is very, very somewhat consistent. Don't too many changes. Um, no, the only change we, we made consciously was, uh, try to do more protein intake. Uh, but that I don't think that directly correlate to this because I used to sleep well too after that.

Okay. Um, but other than that, you know, we exercise regularly, both me and my wife exercise regularly. Uh, we eat well, we don't eat out at all. All food are in our homemade. Um, we don't drink alcohol. Um, and we take a lot of activity outside. So we don't sit in the house. We always in the sun. Um, so I don't see any significant.


Yeah, I cannot tell you this is two things change and everything after that thing happened. Yeah, and that's okay. I didn't, you know, I was the same way too. Some people know like something specific happened and others, you know, we don't know. And, but I think what's been happening is that you're Um, you know, you live this very healthy lifestyle, which is great.


Um, and I, I was too, but I think there were stressors in my body that I didn't know were there that were gradually like slowly affecting my health. And then all of a sudden it just tips the scales enough to where, Oh, like my sleep is impacted and that is how my body is showing that things are out of balance.


So does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, clearly something changed or, or, and then, because just to be honest with you, it happened maybe around six months ago, then it kind of got reset. And then again, so it's not that it is something has been going on for two years and it happened for a while. And then two, three months later, things became normal then.


So I'm kind of, I think there's a cycle going on, maybe some internal reset maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And do you have any other health issues or symptoms? No. I mean, the only thing that happens is when I exercise, sometimes I get hurt and that other than that, there's no other. Injury or any health issues.


It is just from my own making of overdoing something . Yeah. Yeah. So blood work is fine. No high cholesterol or high blood pressure or No, no, I don't have, my blood work is good. I, everything is heart rate is, you know, very comfortable. Um, yeah, it's pretty healthy, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. No medication.


I don't take medication other than some vitamin supplements. Yeah. Um, okay. Nothing, no medication at all. Yeah, I mean, you're doing all the right things and living this healthy lifestyle, so I know it's frustrating when then all of a sudden you're waking up in the middle of the night. So, yeah, um, but it is common, unfortunately, and it looks like you have a really good schedule like you're going to bed nine nine thirty waking up.


530, 540. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it used to be four, but after, you know, but that was when I was working. No, I don't work. So, you know, there's no reason to get up at four. So I get up around five, five 30 depends upon, you know, whether I have a gym session in the morning or what, so, but consistently between five and five 30.


Yeah. Okay. And then you're getting about five to six hours of sleep. You think I, because I'm definitely getting sleep otherwise, you know, because I don't take a nap during the day. And I'm pretty active and alert and I can do whatever I want to do. I can concentrate. I can study all that during the day.


So I don't think I am completely deprived of sleep. I may be getting four to five hours and sustaining me, but I am not, you know, but this is still bugging me. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Especially if you're used to getting eight hours or seven hours and then, yeah. And we ideally want at least seven hours of sleep a night.


So yeah. Probably that's the anxiety part. Maybe. Right. Yeah. And it sounds like your energy is still pretty good. Your stress levels are. Yeah. Morning when I get up, I'm completely, I don't feel lethargic at all. I'm totally awake. As soon as I wake, I'm out of the bed. I don't lie down on the bed at all. Yeah.


Okay. So, I mean, the first thing I would recommend is actually getting out of bed when you are sleeping. So, you know, like you, like we've said, you're in bed for eight hours, but only getting four to five hours. So, um, what can actually help you get more sleep is if you think you've been in bed, I don't recommend looking at a clock.


Cause then that just, yeah, yeah. So if you think it's been 20 to 30 minutes and it sounds like usually you fall asleep, fine. It's mainly this waking up. So when you wake up, let's say you wake up at 11 or one or whatever it is. If you aren't going back to sleep in about 20 minutes, Then I suggest actually getting out of bed.


And I know this is really hard because we're tired and all we want to do is go back to sleep, but what happens when we start having sleep issues is that we lose this association that bed equals sleep. And so now bed becomes this place where you're awake for long hours of time, maybe getting frustrated, you know, and so it can help to actually get out of bed, go to another space, keep the lights dim and do something relaxing.


And so that can be for me, I always like to read a book, you could stretch, you could listen to something, you know, you don't want to be on screens though, like watching TV or on your scrolling through your phone or anything like that. Um, but do something relaxing until you get sleepy again and then go back to bed.


Okay. And if. Again, if another 20 or so minutes goes by and you haven't fallen asleep and get back up again. And so the first couple nights, like it could be some up and down until your brain finally gets it like, okay, when I get in bed, that's when I go to sleep. And so if there's something in your body that's causing you to wake up, it's not going to solve that.


But I found that for myself and many of my clients, you can get a lot more sleep just by doing that. Cause for me, I would, I could lie there for two hours and just, my mind is racing and I'm trying to like, Do breathing things and, but you know, nothing's working. But if I actually get up, go read and like 10 minutes I'm sleepy and then I go back to bed and go back to sleep.


Have you ever tried that? No. Um, I haven't tried it because, uh, uh, I used to have a habit of getting up at three o'clock and doing work, but that is when I was working, you know, to me, between two to five was one of the most productive time in my day. You know, I can be all kind of. Um, uh, output. Yeah. And but I stopped doing that because there's nothing reason for me to get up and do it at that point in time.


So I just laid on the bed and think about something. Um, and then next thing I know is that I am or my wife say I'm snoring. So Yeah. Yeah. So that could be something to try is getting out of bed and see if that helps you fall asleep faster. Okay. Yeah. Ideally you don't want to be working or doing anything stimulating.


Um, so that's good that you're past that point in your life. Um, and you don't have to do that anymore, but yeah, give that a try and see if that helps you fall asleep. Let me ask you one question. See, one other thing I like to do is I study. in between, you know, during the day, some languages and things like that.


Do you recommend when I wake up in the middle of the night, as you recommended, get out of the bed, do I study or do I shouldn't do it, get into any active activities? I wouldn't, I wouldn't do anything like that. What you, you almost want to read something boring, like definitely something, you know, not an engrossing novel or, I mean, if studying is going to, Like help you get tired, but you know, but then you're also probably not going to retain it.


So it's probably something that you want to go back to anyway. So I would recommend something more relaxing Onday. Okay. Yeah. And I know it's hard if we're used to being productive all the time too, you know, to not to being awake and not being productive, but I mean, You know, the most common reason why we're waking up at that time is because the body's releasing cortisol, which is our stress hormone, and it shouldn't be releasing it in the middle of the night, but once the body releases cortisol, it takes time for our body to process it and for it to clear.


So the more you can do that's relaxing, like the faster it's going to be able to kind of clear from your body and you'll be able to go back to sleep. Okay. Well, one thing to try new, but I never tried, so I will definitely try. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. And, um, okay. So the second thing I was going to recommend, which you might not like to hear, but I know you're doing, you know, one to two hours of exercise a day, um, most days of the week.


Is that right? Yes. Sometimes more. So strenuous exercise actually causes the body to release cortisol. And if you're not already not sleeping, like you're waking up for a couple hours in the night, again, that's a sign that your body's stressed, your body's releasing cortisol. So then that strenuous exercise is making us release even more cortisol.


So it's really, it's like stressing your body out more and your body's already stressed. So, but this happens five o'clock in the morning, and then we are talking about another 14 hours later. So how do I correlate that? Yeah, it's just creating this pattern of, of stress in your body. And so when we're younger, like our bodies can handle it and maybe cortisol comes down.


But if it's too much, then it's going to keep cortisol levels elevated. And then it could be other, other imbalances that are causing the body to release cortisol at night. But it's still just this extra stressor on your body that's already stressed. Like I would love to see your cortisol levels and your cortisol pattern and see what's actually happening.


Um, cause that would tell, like that would give a lot of insight. I use a dried urine test called the Dutch test because a blood test, um, you just, it's that second in time. So you can. like find your cortisol at that time, but it's not going to show where it is the rest of the day and what the pattern is because ideally cortisol is lowest first thing in the morning and then it spikes to his highest level within two hours of waking up and then it should gradually go down throughout the day and be at its lowest point all night.


And so a lot of times I'm seeing. You know, in, in, in my test results too, and clients I work with, like cortisol is super high in the middle of the night and then going down throughout the day or it's spiking at the wrong time of day. So yeah, without testing, we don't really know what's going on, but I just know that the more stress that the body's been under and the longer it's been under that stress, then for a while, like our body's going to do everything it can to stay in balance and to handle that stress.


Okay. But when we're talking years and decades of stress and it sounds like early morning wakings, working out hard, like our body gets to the point where it can't handle that as well anymore. Especially if then there are other stressors happening as well. Okay. So I tend to recommend limiting strenuous exercise to 30 minutes and then you could still do like, I recommend walking instead, yoga, like more gentle exercises instead, but ideally like 30 minutes, four times a week.


If you're open to that and seeing if that helps just reduce overall stress in your body and see if that helps with your sleep. It's totally. Opposite to the goals that I have set for myself. Yeah, I told you I wrote, I am trying to increase my view to max that require me intense, more intensity, but it's very different than than I'm being intended to do for them.


To be honest with you, my 20 goals. Yes. And I know how that is. I mean, I live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. So it's a ski town, a mountain town. Like I spent my twenties and thirties being so active, like all day ski tours, all day bike rides, like, and at the time my body could handle it. But I think that as I got older and then I got a parasite when traveling in Asia.


And so I suspect that it all just became too much for my body to handle. And I got to the point where I would be exhausted after exercise. And like five years ago, I really had to cut it down and it was hard because that that's like how I define myself. That's true. Yeah, it's totally true. Yeah. Um, I'll also add that.


I don't know if you know, Dave Asprey, he's like the bulletproof coffee guy. He's Like kind of the follower of biohacking, but he, he talks about in one of his books, how to increase VO two max by doing these like super strenuous things for like a minute at a time and then resting. And so instead of spending like hours.


He like, yeah, I mean, we have two testes. It's an either one by one or two by two or things like that. Yeah. So you could do it in short periods of time, but yeah. So I guess it's, what are your, like, what are your priorities to like, do you want to focus on the sleep or do you want to focus to max and see what happens?


So I know, I know this is not always what people want to hear. It's okay. I mean, again, these are inputs, right? These are different than what you've been thinking. So naturally. Um, you, you have seen this working. So I mean, if I need to sort it out, I need to attempt to have some of these ideas. Okay. Awesome.


I'm glad you're at least open. And then the last thing I was going to recommend, you know, I've been talking about cortisol, if cortisol is being released in the middle of the night. So we like, we also want to find out why that is happening. And so one of the things, I mean, it sounds like. You're eating a very healthy diet.


You don't necessarily have a lot of symptoms of blood sugar imbalances, but I'm wondering, you know, being vegetarian, um, with egg whites and dairy, it sounds like you're having, I just wonder if blood sugar could be an issue. Um, and it's interesting that you started eating more protein. Do you know how much you're eating now?


Yeah. Um, last week I reduced it. I normally tend to get to at least one and a half grams for my body weight. So I am 70. So my goal is to get 110. Okay. So protein and that is split across three meals. So, you know, okay. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Um, so, you know, I didn't see the details of your diet or anything, but I tend to recommend, like, that sounds like a great amount of protein.


Um, there could be going on something digestively, like, um, H. pylori is a type of bacteria that lives in the stomach that affects protein digestion. And so it's interesting, you know, you said it wasn't an exact correlation, but you started eating more protein and then, um, The sleep issues came too. So that could have something to do with it.


Like the protein isn't the problem, but your body's ability to digest it, or like you still need the protein, but you need to be digesting it well. So that could have something to do with it. Um, or if you don't have enough digestive enzymes to digest that protein, so that's a possibility. Um, it doesn't sound like blood sugar is as much as of a possibility if you're always below.


I mean, I test every year we do our blood work and H1A, B, C, uh, all that is very consistent with where it needs to be. It hasn't changed much at all. Very stable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I, you know, I spikes during the day, but quickly, but then it goes away because every meal we walk to after eating, we take a 10 minutes, 15 minutes walk.


Okay. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, you're doing all the right things for sure. So yeah, so it doesn't sound like blood sugar is as much of an issue. I will say that. You know, I, what is normal on say blood work for fasting glucose, like the labs will say up to a hundred is normal. I like to see it between 75 and 90.


So it is sometimes a matter of interpretation. But it sounds like you've tested your blood sugar if you See that it spikes and it's fine for it to spike after eating. And I haven't, we haven't done a continuous glucose monitor to see where the, how the metabolism working. We wanted to try that, but insurance won't pay for it.


Yeah. Which is something they should honestly speaking. I agree. Hmm. Yeah, but I will leave it be so we haven't tested right after a meal, how much is spikes, et cetera. But the standard markers are nothing I need to take any action around. Yeah. Okay. Which is good. Um, yeah. As long as if you go back, I don't know if you remember what your fasting glucose is, but if it's under, yeah, I would just look and see if it's under 90 just cause again, the labs are going to say it's fine if it's up to, I would look at it and look at it last one.


In fact, one is another one is coming up in the next two months too. So, okay. Good. Yeah. And I can send you information about blood sugar too. So you see that there are, there's a much lower cost CGM that you can get over the counter now. And I'm spacing the name of it, but I'll look it up and send that to you as well.


That'd be nice. We love to get it and at least try for two weeks to see. Yeah. Right. And this one I think is like 50, whereas some of them are so much more and you have to pay this, like, like what I used to recommend was 200. For sensors over a month because they make you pay this membership fee, but there's one that's I think 49 for two weeks.


So we don't need to wear it for lifetime. This is just yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's just the sea and like I, you know, I end up. doing mine for maybe eight weeks total, kind of off and on and just testing different things and seeing what's happening. But if you do it for two weeks and everything looks great, then you don't need to do it again.


And you can do it again if you change the diet and see the impact. Right. But for getting a general baseline, I think two weeks is great. Yeah. Yeah. But it sounds like, yeah, it sounds like you're doing all the right things there. So, you know, I think if the other two things I suggested don't really help, then, then we need to find out why your body's releasing cortisol at night.


I mean, confirm that that's happening, but that would be my guess. And then, you know, it doesn't have to do with gut health, um, pathogens in the gut can cause those, uh, those late. middle of the night wakenings and the top like they're most active then and so then the toxins they excrete cause a lot of inflammation and Then the body releases cortisol because it's it's also an anti inflammatory hormone.


So So yeah, you mentioned it so that that requires some kind of a gut You know, some tests, right? Some, we need to, you know, you suggested you in your podcast, you talk a lot about GI map or something. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a stool test that shows what's living in your gut. It's it looks at overall gut health, how well you're digesting food as well.


So this is something easy to get done. I mean, I'm assuming that I'm not working with you. And based on this conversation is something I should be able to go and get it done or, uh, The GI map, I don't think it's available without a practitioner. Um, there are other stool tests that are, you know, over the counter or whatever you want to call it, but, um, they don't tend to be as comprehensive.


So, so I have to work with someone to get the GI test done. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And yeah, that's just one of the gastro. So, uh, you know, doctors, uh, they will be able to prescribe it or, uh. They don't do the GI map. So, or something like it. So it's, it's called a functional lab test. It's not diagnosing anything.


Okay. Okay. A doctor can give you a stool test looking for pathogens, but it's going to look for like seven things. Okay. Like I've seen them before. Cause my clients have gotten them done. Whereas a GI maps looking for, for dozens for like almost 75 things living in the gut. both good and bad. Um, a gastroenterologist, like if you get, you know, an endoscopy or a colonoscopy, like, um, they're looking to see if the gut is damaged and things like that.


But yeah, it's. Not necessarily going to show how you got there, you know, so yeah, so it's a little more involved, but I mean, the three main things I see as causing those late night wake ups are blood sugar, gut pathogens, and then liver detox issues. And so if the liver isn't detoxing properly, it's. It's also most active at night, and so, those toxins, like, they're more than it can handle.


They end up circulating around, causing inflammation, causing you to wake up. And I know, you know, you don't drink alcohol and all of that, um, and so people are like, how can my liver be messed up? But, almost all my clients need liver support, like, pretty much every single one. Just, it's hard in this modern day and age to not be exposed to toxins.


And, you know, it's in everything. It's in the food we eat. It's in the things we put on our skin. And even if you're trying to be careful with those things, they still have probably built up over the years. So just, you know, and for some people they need more support than others, but usually liver detox has something to do with it.


So what is the liver detox? What do you mean? I mean, is it a, is it a medication? Is it some treatment? What is it? I mean, I'm just trying to understand what, what do you mean by that? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's kind of, it involves a lot of things. So I mean, it involves minimizing toxins that are coming in. It involves supporting your liver and your body really.


There's more to detox than just the liver, but supporting your body and being able to get rid of those toxins on its own. So, and I can send you information about this too, but things like. Um, drinking warm, um, warm water with lemon juice squeezed in at first thing in the morning stimulates bile production by the liver.


And then a lot of toxins are removed through the bile. So that can help, um, taking Epsom salt bass, doing castor oil packs. So there are kind of like lifestyle things you can do to support the liver or reduce that toxic load that your body's dealing with. And then I, I do recommend supplements for a lot of my clients, but it can be different for everyone, depending on.


Like what part of liver detox needs to be supported. So there are different phases, there are different processes that happen. And the different tests I do show, show which ones need support and which ones don't. So, yeah. Um, so it's kind of three prong of minimizing. I want to go back to something you mentioned.


You said dry urine test. Is it something I can do just to see it? Or does it require some professional support? So the, that's called the Dutch test. Oh yeah. UTCH. Um, I think it's practitioner only, you might be able to order it without, you'd have to look into it. I know it's definitely more expensive cause there's like the practitioner price that when a practitioner orders that people pay and then, um, there's the retail price.


It's like 300 more, but so I'm not sure. Okay. So this is not something. at home I can do. Well, right, without a practitioner ordering necessarily. You do do all the tests at home, but yeah. Yeah, no, no, what I mean is, yeah, um, yeah, yeah, you might be able to order it without a practitioner. It just might be 700 or 600 instead of 300.


Okay. You could definitely look into it. I mean, there's a lot out there of, um, Yeah, there are functional health companies now that make it easier to order these things. I'm just, yeah, not sure. Okay, okay. I'm just curious to understand because Yeah. The cortisol theory work probably makes sense, probably I need to understand, but there's no way, we've never looked into it, right?


These are all Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's, it's such a bummer. And I hope that we're moving toward the medical system changing and like all these tests can be preventative in so many ways. Yeah. In many ways. Yeah. But that's, yeah. But unfortunately, we can talk about that for, yeah, exactly. So my hope is that in the future, everything like my program, everything will be covered by health insurance, but right now it's not.


Yeah. Um, I will say you can probably, if you have a health savings account. Then usually those cover testing. Um, glucose monitors as well might be. Yeah, I can tap into it to say for that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So they're starting to be ways to, you know, at least pay for these things. without being taxed on that.


Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Well, anything else I can help you with? No, I think, uh, so will you be able to send me some other things that you mentioned documentation? So, and then tell me, where do you take this, this great conversation? Yeah. So this will be aired on the sleep detective podcast and I'll put the links to everything in the show notes as well.


So anyone listening, you can also access those things too. Okay. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think it will go out in the next couple of weeks. All right. Wonderful. It was very informative for me and also kind of think about few things which I would never consider as an option, especially making, you know, getting out of the bed.


Yeah. 11 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. And not in the morning. Anyway. So I will try some of that. Yes. And the challenge for me is what do I do when I wake up? You know, get up, get out of the bed. Yeah. To me, that should be something I need to think about. So. Yeah. Okay, great. So I'll email you these resources and then I'd love if you let me know too, how, how things work.


Yeah. I'll let you know. Okay. Yeah. I'm also curious to see some of the additional details you mentioned, see whether I could pursue some of them to get a better insight into what is really going on and then we'll see. Okay. All right. Sounds good, Sunil. Well, thanks so much for being on and it was great to meet you. Okay.


You take care and have a wonderful day and wish you very best. All right. You too. Thank you. If you have questions about your sleep, you're also welcome to sign up for a sleep breakthrough call just like Sunil. So I will send you an assessment and review your case and tell you three things that you can do right away to help you sleep better and optimize your health. So you can sign up for the call in at the link in the show notes. Thanks for listening everyone. And I will talk to you next time.

Listen and follow: Apple Podcasts · Spotify